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Elines Profile
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Re: Do I need Photoshop?


Myotisone – why not give your workflow anyway as you could very well get some good advice/suggeastions.

As regards my workflow - it hasn’t stabilised yet.

Plus I am currently reading:

FROM BASICS TO FINE ART | Black and White Photography - Architecture and Beyond
by Julia Anna Gospodarou and Joel Tjintjelaar

and I don’t yet know how much - if any - of their method I will be trying to use. And even if I can’t use any of it I am just very interested to know how they produce their images.

But the latest re-incarnation of my workflow is:

Canon 550D - usually with standard lens and if not then with ’nifty fifty’ prime lens

Shoot in Raw, trying to ETTR

Open in ACR in 16 bit – move sliders to achieve ‘strongest’ colour image - including use of clarity, vibrance and saturation commensurate with keeping histogram within bounds (unless very minor outlier). Crop in ACR

Open in PSE 11

Do any cloning, spot healing etc

Use Ian Barber ‘SEP Triple play’ which uses SFEX plug in to create 3 B&W images – under, over and normal - but which converts image to 8 bit (PSE cannot create layers, allow use of curves adjustment etc in 16 bit so any creative conversion method needs 8 bit)

Blend using opacity % to give a ‘Master’

Selectively amend Master using CG method (only up to use of curves at moment – as I didn’t have the Nik collection when using Martin’s DVD and not yet re-visited it)

Output is usually to view on PC/forums

At the moment I only print images if I am entering a local competition and I have not (so far) noticed any problems. And I use a commercial printer.

But when I am able to produce images to the standard generally found on here I will want to be printing more. And if at that point I do see quality problems then I will start re-thinkingemoticon

?anything leap off the page?


Last edited by Elines, 13/Aug/14, 5:53 pm


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Chris

One day I might grow up, but I hope not
Say YES unless good reason to contrary
13/Aug/14, 5:48 pm Link to this post Send Email to Elines   Send PM to Elines Blog
 
myotisone Profile
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Re: Do I need Photoshop?


quote:

martinimages wrote:

Hi Graham
I think we answered the original question, unless you need any more advice , post away emoticon

Martin



No, that's fine, as I said I went ahead and stumped up for Photoshop, and indeed Ian's contrast adjustment panel, so that decision has been made.

Thanks,

Graham

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Digital Finger Profile
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Re: Do I need Photoshop?


AS someone who has really struggled to learn photoshop (Ps) what I would say is that for processing images some will only need a tweak in LR or SEP or a plug in like Nik topaz etc

I.e. Some images only need GLOBAL adjustmenst, and if you take the kind of images that only need global adjustments then you don't need photoshop

A LOT of professionals (experts) don't need pixel level adjustments , only global, in fact many pros don't have time for anything but global adjustments : like highlight recovery and shadows lift and crop on wedding photography, sports photography etc. So now that LR exits they really don't need ps, where they might have before

Also final output determines what editing you need to do and how carefully

But for me the reall need for Ps is that I m not usually happy with what comes out of the camera with just global tools. Sometimes I am but not often when I see a 'vision' for a pic, or as Martin and others put it, whereI neeed the image to match my 'visualisation'.

I.e as soon as you want to get 'arty' then you need Ps. I imagine that half of those disagreeing experts, that half that say yo don't need photoshop , don't want to get 'arty'. or for them arty means using some garish effect from a plug in.

I agree that not every image needs Ps, but for the ones that do, i.e. tose that need pixel level editing, then it is indispensible

When I started this malarkey I was a colour photog who realised that often I didnt even notice shadows, and , that they played an important part in composition. So I thought to myself I must learn B+W to better see in B+W as thats where shadows appear to lie, so, ultimately I can be a better colur photog.

Then as I learned it I realised you can do amn awful ots more with B+W than learn to see shadows, i.e. instead of just seeing in B+W to improve composition , you can also start to better see TONES and tonal graduation and THAT is when it hooks you
 You realise there is a whole side to photography that you responded to but didnt understand why and find that you can make images that have this depth of tonality whicg reaches people and enables you to express your vision ina way that you always wanted to

You start to explore what your vision IS, start to learn what it can be and start to get better at making that happen. To do this we have to look at our images not aas a global whole but as areas of luminosity, light and shade that need balancing.

That brings us to pixel level editing, and whilst there is some facility to do this in LR it is clumsy compared to Ps.

Yes Ps is a pig to learn (at least for me it was) but whilst I may be no expert, as an amateur who is obsessed with photography, I say it is an essential peice of kit if you have artistic aspirations (however humble) and want to realise your visualisation of an image.

If you just want to churn out records of events and things then no it probably isnt essential

the good news is that the parts of Ps we need in mono work arent actually that complicated once you get the basic concepts under your belt ( did take me a while tough! emoticon )

Last edited by Digital Finger, 15/Aug/14, 10:29 am


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That's a part of what I seem, but not apart from what I am

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Elines Profile
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Re: Do I need Photoshop?


Yes - I am beginning to accept that I may need to get PS (or other editing software) to do what I will (eventually) want to do.

But until I KNOW I can't do what I want in Elements, then I will just stick with it. There is a lot further I can get with just Elements and it will be easier for me to experiment with something I know reasonably well than try to do the same thing with new software (I just know it will do my head inemoticon)

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One day I might grow up, but I hope not
Say YES unless good reason to contrary
15/Aug/14, 11:00 am Link to this post Send Email to Elines   Send PM to Elines Blog
 
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Re: Do I need Photoshop?


above was aimed at OP mostly

emoticon
 emoticon

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I am a part of what I am, not apart from what I dream,
That's a part of what I seem, but not apart from what I am

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Elines Profile
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Re: Do I need Photoshop?


Ahh - ok

---
Chris

One day I might grow up, but I hope not
Say YES unless good reason to contrary
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myotisone Profile
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Re: Do I need Photoshop?


quote:

Elines wrote:

Myotisone – why not give your workflow anyway as you could very well get some good advice/suggeastions.

As regards my workflow - it hasn’t stabilised yet.

Plus I am currently reading:

FROM BASICS TO FINE ART | Black and White Photography - Architecture and Beyond
by Julia Anna Gospodarou and...



My workflow is all over the place at the moment, but I keep coming back to Capture one for raw processing.

And as I mentioned in my post, it was reading the review of Topaz plugins by Julia Anna Gospodarou that made me think that instead of going from Capture One to Photoshop, I could go to Topaz Photofxlab, as she does all the prelimary work using Topaz plugins, then uses layers in photoshop, but says in the review of her workflow on the topaz website that she could use Topaz remask instead of photoshop.

This led me to try and read more about how "fine art" photographers use plugins, which led me eventually to my post here.

Now that I have Photoshop, my workflow will be rethought a bit, but most of the time I do everything in Capture One, with sometimes going back into Lightroom or Aperture to let me use Silver Efex as a plugin. Capture One doesn't support Plugins.,

Cheers,

Graham



Last edited by myotisone, 15/Aug/14, 7:33 pm
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Re: Do I need Photoshop?


quote:

Digital Finger wrote:
I.e as soon as you want to get 'arty' then you need Ps. I imagine that half of those disagreeing experts, that half that say yo don't need photoshop , don't want to get 'arty'. or for them arty means using some garish effect from plugins



Thanks for this, I agree with pretty well of this, but my dilemma over plugins vs PS came from looking at workflows of people who were labelled as fine art photographers.

I very deliberately gave Julia Anna Gospodarou as someone, who although uses Photoshop, seems to do pretty everything using plugins except for layers, but on the Topaz website suggests she could just easily use Topaz Remask instead of photoshop for the layers part.

So while understanding the pixel level editing argument, the need for PS did not seem as unanimous as I thought it would have been.

But as I have already said, in, the end I decided to go with Photoshop, at least in part for the points you have made.

Cheers,

Graham
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Digital Finger Profile
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Re: Do I need Photoshop?


this is a very interestin g discussion because it is always worthwhile reviewing one's workflow. Anything that make sit eaiwr is to be lauded, however I woud still say that I have not come across an easier way (once nderstood) than Martin's contrast grading, and/or George DeWolfe's history brush technique. Both very simple.

Getting an optimised RAW file before editing in ANY program is really the most important part IMO, that in iteslf has been a learnign curve for me

So whether capture one or ACR or LR whatever the RAW program , get the image to the optimum state for editing and were halfway there
emoticon

---
I am a part of what I am, not apart from what I dream,
That's a part of what I seem, but not apart from what I am

~ Simon
16/Aug/14, 12:35 pm Link to this post Send Email to Digital Finger   Send PM to Digital Finger Blog
 
myotisone Profile
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Re: Do I need Photoshop?


quote:

Digital Finger wrote:

this is a very interestin g discussion because it is always worthwhile reviewing one's workflow. Anything that make sit eaiwr is to be lauded, however I woud still say that I have not come across an easier way (once nderstood) than Martin's contrast grading, and/or George DeWolfe's history brush technique. Both very simple.

Getting an optimised RAW file before editing in ANY program is really the most important part IMO, that in iteslf has been a learnign curve for me

So whether capture one or ACR or LR whatever the RAW program , get the image to the optimum state for editing and were halfway there
emoticon



My problem is that, due to lack of time, I have just been fiddling around with digital, even though I have been "fiddling" for years now, and this is my attempt at sorting out a proper workflow, so I can focus on making some photographs. With the Photoshop or not Photoshop a fundamental question that I needed to answer.

I actually feel more comfortable having made the decision to go with Photoshop, as I know that I would always have had a nagging feeling that I should be using it.

I bought the contrast grading video some time ago, and it's fairly similar to what I have been doing with layer masks in Capture One, but not at all familiar with the de Wolfe history approach, so will have a look at that.

At the moment however, I have spent the last couple of weeks reeling from one computer crisis to the next, so my allocated two weeks holiday to get my photograpy workflow sorted out has been two weeks of sorting out computer problems :-(

Thanks again for your comments,

Cheers,

Graham
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